Handling Greif with Coach Nichole Haugen

Sterling:
So welcome Nicole, tell us about you and Why you got into grief coaching.  

Nichole:
Hi, yeah, thank you. So, my name is Nicole Haugen, and I have been married to my husband, Will, for 15 years. We have six girls. Yeah! Which is crazy, chaotic, fun, sometimes. I feel that Yeah. It’s both. Yeah, it’s a lot.  Basically, I got into grief coaching because both my parents died in 2019, four months apart from each other.

And at the time I was working as a hospice nurse. So I had a lot of experience with death, dying, grief with other people. but it hits differently when it’s your own family. And so my dad was, it was an expected death quote. He had cancer for 10 years and then he basically, like, it was  just a few days before Easter in 2019.

And, He came into the church, he received the sacraments, and then we signed him up for hospice, and then he passed away at the end of July.  And so that was a grief that was to be expected. It was, sad, but we were glad he wasn’t suffering anymore, and he had a lot of pain at the end. And then my mom, like, at the beginning of December, so just about four and a half months later, we had just come back from, Little family trip and she went home and we all went to our respectful houses. 

My brother called the next day saying, hey, I haven’t seen mom, like the garage door was left open overnight. Have you heard from her at all? And so, no, we hadn’t and he called the authorities. They came out. They, we were searching for her for, basically that whole day and then that evening the wind shifted and And we could see tire tracks that led out onto the water that was right next to our house and like, so the night before it was kind of storming and the water was equal with her driveway and so when the wind would blow, it just looked like snow everywhere.

And so she couldn’t see the road. She accidentally turned out onto the water.  And so then they were able to find her car a few days later and then got the car out, you know, that takes time. It was like negative 50 at the time. Wow. And yeah, like their equipment kept freezing up and, and then got her car out and her body wasn’t in the car.

And so then it was like grief all over again of like, Oh my gosh. Like, what, like, how do we find her? Where is she? So then they found her body, a little ways away from where the car was like the next day late or a day and a half later or so, but yeah, so that whole thing was so traumatic. Oh my goodness.

Yeah. Yes. it was just horrible like you just barely could survive. Yeah. And I was.  Postpartum at the time, I, our sixth child was six months old.  And so, all of that. And then about a month after my mom died, I found out that there was financial infidelity in my marriage. My husband,  thousands of credit card debt racked up that I was completely unaware of.

And so all of that came to a head. And then, so I was also grieving then the marriage I thought I had, and all the things that came with that. And so that is. That’s how I came into grief coaching. 

Sterling:
Yeah. No, wild. And even your dad, I mean, you’re so young. How old was he? Like even I realized that those are two different kinds of losses, right? There’s one where somebody has been dying for a long time and it’s in a lot of pain and we want peace for them, but still like he was so young to lose a parent. How old was he? 

Nichole:
Yeah. He was 73. So like. They were 12 years apart. So like my dad got married later in life. He thought he was going to be a bachelor on the farm.

Oh, that’s older than I thought. You’re so young. Okay. Yep. Yeah. So he had kids in his 40s. Okay. Yep. So that’s so interesting. I didn’t know that. Yep. So he was a little older, but definitely did not seem like he was in his seventies. He’s still far full-time. He or ranch, we had a ranch.  Oh, wow. Yeah. And he was actually the youngest of his siblings, at 73.

So he was the first one to pass away in that family.                                                                                                                                              

Sterling:
Yeah. it’s so hard. I was telling Nicole before we hopped on to record that I really only had. Two grandparents die in my life and they were both much older in their 80s. one, I think she battled dementia for a couple years, but I was so young that I, we didn’t see any of that.

We just flew in for the funeral. And then the other one, my other grandmother, she had, cancer for a long time. And it was, yeah, it was 11 years and 11, the beginning of the 11 years, they said she might live for two or three years. And so every year we would be like, this is her last Christmas, right? We would just like, we really formed the family around her for that time, but man, she was strong in a fighter and it was not, it was 11 years.

She had bone cancer. And, um, but it’s by the end, she was in a lot of pain and, um, and so, you know, you are, you’re kind of ready. You’re happy for them to not be in that kind of pain when, when that’s what it looks like in that last six months. But both of those,  I mean, I don’t even know that I really cried a lot.

It was, you know, I was young and, and I wasn’t particularly close. They weren’t the kind of grandmas that lived near me where we were, they like raised me and we spent lots of time together. So I feel like this is just a human experience that I don’t have a lot.  And so how do you, let’s talk about first people during the holidays, but then I want to talk about outside of the holidays because  I want to point people back to this episode all the time.

But there is something especially painful about grieving during the holidays. So what have you been sharing about that?  

Nichole:
Yeah, so like the holidays just trigger a lot of things because  it’s, There’s so many traditions wrapped around it, and then when you don’t have that person, that,  like, for us, with our parents, like, both of them were then suddenly gone that Christmas, like, one was on Thanksgiving, both were gone by Christmas, and so it was just like, what do we do?

Like, you just feel lost, and you don’t know what to do, and you don’t know what to do. What traditions to really keep. I mean, we kept it the same the first year, basically, I don’t know, at my parents house, like, but moving forward from that, it’s, that’s the part that’s hard to navigate and there’s things that trigger you that you don’t even think like songs or. 

Maybe an advertisement that comes on, or just, for me too, like it was leading up to the days, like I would feel so anxious and overwhelmed leading up to the days, and then actually Thanksgiving or Christmas may be fine, but it was more, it was a shock to me that like the days before were harder. Like, that was something I was not expecting. 

And so I think just to know that like, you’re not crazy, you’re not the only person. Like, when you’re in grief, you really think like, I’m the only one who’s struggling with this. I’m the only one who can’t get it together. I’m the only one that, that feels this way. I’m the only one that’s like breaking down, crying in the bathroom or can’t sleep at night.

Like I, I’ve been up for almost two and a half days because I can’t sleep. Like, but that’s so normal. 

Sterling:
Yeah. And I bet, I bet Christians and Catholics especially feel bad about that because they’re like, I should feel fine or I should feel like at peace with it and I bet they put a lot of pressure on themselves to do that.

Yeah, I have, I have taught, um, I taught a grief class and I researched a lot for it to teach it and it talked a lot about how grief comes in waves. Like, it’s just, it does, it surprises you, the things that. that really trigger that. And so do you recommend, Nicole and I are the same kind of coach. We both went to the life coach school and we’ve both been coaching for a long time and known each other for several years.

So like, I understand how I would maybe coach someone through that, but what would you share that maybe isn’t intuitive to me? Or like, what are some exercises that you have people go through maybe deeper than just feel your feelings?  

Nichole:
Yeah. I really tell people like, I think it’s a lot of what you talk about to a different areas, but it’s like, Plan the expected and then plan the unexpected because You know that things are going to come up, you know that the holidays are going to be hard, but you’re not quite sure what that looks like and means.

And so, just the basics of like,  making sure you have a little bit of movement every day. Like just,  get outside, make sure you have water. Like, just Basic, things. 

Sterling:
I think moms do, for sure, to stop taking care of basic needs. Like, it’s so easy. I mean, how many of you guys get to 11 o’clock and you’re like, all I’ve had is a cup of coffee today?

You’re like, but you can’t live on that, girl. You gotta, like, feed yourself.  But I bet that’s especially hard when you’re, like, in a grief fog. 

Nichole:
Yeah, it’s hard to like know what you need and then you really expect others to know what you need. Because I know for me it was like I expected my husband a lot to know what I like.

Well, you should just know, ah, you should know that this is gonna be hard for me. You should know. But he really had no clue. ’cause he’s like you, like he’s lost a couple grandparents. But it was expected. He’s, he had no clue. And so it was basically like understanding what I needed so I could tell him. And the more specific you can get, the better it is.

For yourself and for that other person. 

Sterling:
Yeah. I Tell me about motherhood in that time. I imagine because this is kind of  how I  would guess, like when my bedrest pregnancies, it was so easy to say, Oh, I’m totally screwing up the kids and I’m not there for them right now. And I’m going to mess them up by not being there.

And so I imagine it’s kind of the same with grief. Like you’re probably pretty checked out, especially like with your mom. That was such a traumatic, like horrific experience that, you know, I bet you’re, it’s hard to be there for the kids. And then on top of. grieving and feeling bad. Now you’re like adding the skills of like ruining the kids.

I think I would say, yeah, just lean into it. It won’t be forever. It’s okay. The kids are going to be fine. Like you’ve got to take care of yourself in that time. So how would you say, how would you balance that with, I don’t know, maybe it’s good to stay busy  in those times and not just be like a puddle on the floor all the time. 

Nichole:
Yeah, I think there’s a balance because I think There were definitely times where like I was overly busy and then like all of a sudden the grief would hit me and then I would just like,  I don’t know if I can get out of bed today. I just feel horrible and I would just cry. So I think it’s. To realize like it does come in waves and so it is okay to like take a day and like Looking back like I mean brain fog grief brain is a real thing Yeah, it’s kind of like pregnancy brain or like part of brain like people are like, oh whatever but like it is real And so for me like that whole time was such a fog that it was I don’t even think I was thinking I was messing up the kids until later on.

It was just Getting through the day. What’s the next task? What’s the next thing? And so that is what, that is why I encourage women to like  find just a few things, like put it in, like even write it down on your plan or put it like shower. Yeah, shower, drink water and just get up and walk for 10 minutes, like, because we don’t, we forget and then it just.

When it, the grief does hit us, it, it just feels so much worse because we’ve been trying to push it away.  

Sterling:
Yeah. That’s so interesting. Yeah. Your kids are going to be fine. I mean, and here’s the thing. First of all, kids are resilient. We just, because of modern psychology and, and attachment parenting and all these catchphrases that we hear now on the internet, we’ve so much pressure to like, get it right. 

But really humans in general, and especially children are very resilient. And I like to think about modeling how it is to be a human in front of them. Like you’re showing them. How a mom experiences grief with her family, right? Because we think, Oh, I’m not reading enough books to the kids. It’ll, it’ll be something like that.

Right. But instead I’m like, you’re showing them how to take care of yourself. Because someone, you know, they might have unexpected grief. And how would you want your daughter to take care of yourself? And it really changes how we see the situation when we feel the honor. I think of modeling for them, like this is a healthy way.

And sometimes it means not getting out of bed today. And sometimes it means, you know. gardening and it’s okay that you’re doing that even though this big thing just happened. Like, I can see that it would feel so confusing to make those choices throughout the day, but you can just show them  what that looks like. 

Nichole:
Yeah. And I think the biggest thing for me was just to communicate with them. Like, cause they were young, like my oldest was nine and my youngest was an infant. And so. But just to talk with them and just be like, you know, I’m really sad today. I’m really missing grandpa and grandma. we’re just going to camp out in the living room tonight.

We’re just going to have a movie night. Like, and even like on the, their birthdays or like death anniversary, I’d be like, we’re having ice cream in memory of grandpa. Like, do you guys want to share a favorite memory of grandpa? Cause I mean, I am surprised like, how the two youngest don’t Remember them at all, but The four of them do it.

So they do have memories and and then to also walk through them like last night. My 11 year old was crying because she was like, Thanksgiving, like, I miss grandma because Thanksgiving was the last time we saw grandma and I’m like, I know, like, it is hard, like, and so she just cried and I just hugged her.

And so, you know, yeah, it’s like that’s sometimes all we can do. 

Sterling:
Yeah, that’s so beautiful.  So tell me, how did it change your faith life? Like, I, I think those, I think I’m so Catholic, right? But I haven’t experienced this part of it. And so this year, I don’t know why, but Hallowtide, maybe I’ll just tell you guys, I bought the Into the Deep Hallowtide study and maybe that’s what it was, but I was reading her study, which was made for children.

It wasn’t like a, an adult study. And my experience of death and purgatory this year was so much different. I’ve been so interested in that, in just a new way. And I’m Imagine that when people die, you like, then are more curious about that. So did your faith life change after losing your parents?  

Nichole:
I mean, I would say, like, it made my face stronger, but then it also made me, you know, like, you question things.

Oh, for sure, yeah. like, because we’re human, right? And so, um,  basically, after my mom died, it was a bit, like, a lot of days of just like, Jesus, I trusted you. Jesus, I trusted you. Like, that’s what my mom would always say. And so, Yeah. She’s like, okay, that’s all I have. Like, I don’t understand, but like, I know you’re going to make this clear someday.

And so that was all I could do. And then more so like after the stuff with my husband, like I was just angry, like I was angry for so long. and then, you know, like, COVID happened shortly after. So the world shut down. So I was angry about that. Like, 

after that. Yeah. It was just a bad time straight up. So, and you did all that without coaching, right? You became a coach after that. I didn’t have coaching until 2021 or 22. Yeah. I think about that with the bedrest pregnancies. I’m like, Oh, I can’t, I wonder how I would have done that. Yeah. because it, yeah, it changes your perspective a hundred percent.

So, but I had a priest one time that, and he’s still our priest now. He’s an amazing priest. he told me just like, God can handle our anger. So just like, you don’t have to hide it from him. He knows that you’re angry. He knows everything about you and he wants that. And so he’s like, you know, just go. Lock yourself in your car or like when your kids are out like just take like time and just like let it all out like so I did that I like cried about it I screamed at him and then I was just like at the end I was just like you know you’re just like exhausted emotionally of course yeah  and something is just like okay fine like I still love you I’m sorry but he can he handle it like and I think that sometimes  we’re ridiculous in our littleness that we I think that he can’t.

And so, yeah, just like keep going back. Like that was the thing I found, is just keep going back with whatever stage I was at for the day and, you know, throughout life, because it always changes. 

Sterling:
Yeah, I love that. Just like really bringing the stage, because it’s so known, the stages, and they’re not linear, you guys, when they talk about the stages of grief.

You’re like hopping. It’s like you’re just hopping from one to the other, back and forth. but I love that. Just to. Acknowledging like, hey, whatever stage I’m in, I’m going to bring it to him. And anger is such an interesting one because obviously it’s one of the deadly sins. But yeah, there must be, you know, he grapples with us in it.

You know, he grapples with us in it. And like, he allows us to figure it out. And I think about that because I have a really passionate kiddo who just loses her mind sometimes and is so tired and is crying and can’t see. anything when she’s that upset. And I just love her so much and I’m not upset. And I’m like, Oh, she’ll be fine after she sleeps.

She’s just really tired right now. And I imagine God looks at us like that, where he’s like, Hey, little Sterling, I know you’re upset right now, but I love you. And we’ll, we’ll talk about it again tomorrow. Like it’s going to be okay. So you had been, in hospice before  and what was the experiencing that like watching, I mean, did you watch lots of people die?

I don’t know  how often they’re right in front of you when they pass. 

Nichole:
Right. I’ve seen a few like pass away right in front of me. but for the most part, you know, like you’re coming and going, like, you meet them where they’re at. So like somewhere in the nursing home, somewhere at their home, somewhere like somewhere in the hospital.

But it’s just you try to set up the care for them. And so oftentimes, like you’re not physically there when they actually pass away. but I, you know, I have been there for some of them when you know that they’re close. So it just like having to stare at mortality in the face like that, like when that’s your job, you’re like, Oh yeah, we all die.

And that’s, that’s a lot to, like, process on a Wednesday, you know?  Yeah, I think definitely, like, it, it’s made my faith stronger because you, feel things, like, in the room, like, you feel, you know, you can feel the ones that are ready, that have faith, and, like, It is drastically different from the ones that don’t, and you can feel that.

And I think I’ll like for me, I obviously I’m Catholic. I know not everybody was Catholic, but I would always pray the divine mercy for them. sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the night and I would just like pray the divine mercy chaplain. Cause I like, I don’t know. I just kind of sense like, Oh, this person is kind of close.

And so I would always like try to pray for them extra.

Sterling:
So Okay, so what are some, what are some things that you can share with people? I guess it really doesn’t matter whether it’s related to the holidays or not. Like if people, I have heard, to give yourself kind of a year to process, like that it’s going to be kind of rough for a year, particularly, um, like if your spouse dies.

That there’s just nothing to do about it. It’s just going to be ridiculously hard and maybe in that fog for a year. Have you found that to be true for the unexpected deaths? 

Nichole:
I think sometimes it’s it’s longer than a year. So I know people are always like, oh, give yourself a year. But like and then people are like, well, it’s been a year.

Like, I should be better, right? Like it’s the year cut off and like, right. But again, like grief is not linear. And I think to me, that was something that I think I knew, but I didn’t realize just how drastically the ups and downs would be. So for me, I mean, it took probably till year three that I was like able to find.

And also I had just started getting coaching at that time. And so really, I think it would have been longer if I didn’t have that. And so just to like. have compassion that it is just a lot of survival mode and  that’s okay. 

Sterling:
Yeah. I love that. You’re right. Cause I always hear that it’s a year. So I bet a lot of people feel pressure. 

Either from themselves or from people around them to be like, but it’s been a year, you should be okay right now. And of course that’s just not, we can’t dictate people’s emotional experience about things. Like it takes what it takes to get, get through a lot of that.  So when would someone know that they were ready for coaching?

Like if someone just died last month, are they ready for coaching or do they need a little bit of time to even come out of the fog enough to, utilize coaching? 

Nichole:
I think it really depends on the person and how, or. how willing and wanting they are to be like, no, like I’m really struggling with this because I mean, I was just coaching somebody yesterday.

It was two months since her mom died. So, but she was like, no, I’m really struggling. I don’t, I don’t know how to get out of this. And then a lot of times too, when you’re the kind of the rock in your family, for me, that was kind of the case. Like, I would say that for my siblings, like I am, and then my children and like, so it just, I, when I found coaching, I was like, I need somebody else to lean on.

And so that’s when I tell people like, when you were like, I need somebody else to lean on because my friends give me the cliche of, Oh, like, but they’re in heaven, like they’re in a better place. Like.Yeah. but that feels horrible. Like I don’t wanna hear that. So that’s what I tell people. Yeah.

Sterling:
Okay. Yeah, I mean, I was thinking about it. For me, just knowing that we were gonna have this conversation, I was thinking, because I’m so sold on coaching, particularly coaches that have a specialty, like that’s immediately, I would just like Google Grief Coach. well, I mean, I would find you, but I like, if I didn’t know you, I would just immediately Google Grief Coach and I was thinking I’d probably wait a month or two.

But then I would just be like, I know that I will process this better walking with someone who specializes in this. Like, I know that it would, help me. I don’t think I would wait a year if I had. And unexpected death. I think I would just, I don’t know you guys. I mean, obviously coaching is so powerful.

Somebody on Instagram just, posted my book and their stories. And I, and so I just messaged, you know, if you do that, you guys, I message you and I say, Oh, thank you for sharing it. And she said, Oh yeah, I just read the part about how your thoughts create your results. And I said, yeah, that totally changed my life.

That totally changed my life. I don’t, I just wish I could get every mom on the planet to realize. It’s coaching will 180 who you are and it doesn’t change who you are. It helps you find who you are. You’ve been acting like a version of yourself that isn’t real, like a, just a reactive version of yourself.

And, and coaching really helps you just be who you are. And that might be. To be a puddle on the floor crying and that might be who you really are today and that’s totally fine But then you just live into it. You just accept it. You receive it that moment and you’re like Yeah, this is what i’m supposed to be doing right now and and there’s not so much resistance to it.

Yeah, so you Also coach nurses. So you were a nurse before you were coach and you do grief coaching, but you also do coaching specifically for nurses around the grief that they experience in that profession. So tell me how that that comes up in a in a unique way for nurses. 

Nichole:
Yeah, because like a lot of times you’re working with patients for a long time like around here We have a lot of the same repeat kind of people come cold flu season.

They come in for pneumonia  Or I’ve had hospice patients that have been on service for a long time And so when they’re gone like you grieve them I’ve heard like a lot of nurses who work in dialysis like When they decide to stop dialysis or the oncology, right? Like, you know that like, this is the last time you’re going to see them.

And you don’t really have anybody to talk to because if you were their main nurse, there’s other nurses there that have helped, but like, they probably don’t have that personal connection with that person that you do. And you go home and it’s basically like another day at work. And so you have nobody to talk to.

And it just, it’s sad. Like you miss that person. You grew close to them. You grew close to their family. And. It is hard, and I don’t, I think for a long time, like, I didn’t understand that, and I didn’t realize, like, that’s what I was bringing home with me. Like, the grief, like, the sadness of, like, I really loved this family, and now I will never see them again. 

Sterling:
Yeah, I imagine that’s part of that job, and that it, and then it kind of surprises you, because you’re kind of, like, doing your job. Yeah. And then I bet it’s, like, waves, too, where you’re at home, and you’re just like, oh, and then you think about those problems. That person and, and your relationship with them and so I, and I want to make it clear that Nichole coaches anybody on grief, but you know, if you’re a nurse and you’re experiencing patient grief, you know, we don’t always link those two things together.

It’s not that your mom died. It’s that, you know, you’re dealing with your patients passing away all the time. And I think it’s probably difficult, even  if it’s known or expected versus the ones that are Yeah. To watch you off guard. 

Nichole:
Yeah. And then too, like, you know, you’re told at work to be professional and so you don’t want to like fall apart at work.

And so you feel like you just stuff it down. You stuff it down so much all the time.  

Sterling:
And I’ll tell you, you know, anytime you guys do that about anything, when you stuff things down and when you resist what’s happening and you don’t process it, you don’t feel your feelings, I’m telling you, it steals your energy.

And that’s the thing, I mean, I don’t know a mom on the planet who isn’t like, I wish I had a little more energy. I’m like, well, you gotta feel your feelings, which we think is the opposite. We think that if we allow ourselves to feel our feelings, that we’re gonna fall apart and it’ll be so emotional and that will drain us.

And I’m telling you the opposite is true. Not feeling your feelings. is the thing that is stealing your energy more. And if you would just feel whatever it is, then, you know, it processes out. It does take energy to feel your feelings, but then it just, it moves through you. You just, it, I don’t know how to explain it, but it like, it just goes through you.

And then you just are like, okay, let’s make dinner now. You know? And it’s not hanging over you all day. Like when we just resist. The truth. So where can people find you? Oh, you have a webinar coming up. Tell us about that. 

Nichole:
Yes. So I am doing a weekly webinar through December for specifically for handling grief through the holidays. 

so you can go to my website to register for that. It’s nursegriefcoaching.com Okay Awesome. So go check that out. If you guys are listening to this in the holiday season or nurse grief coaching. com I’ll link it in the show notes. and then beyond that, can they just book a call with you to find out what grief coaching is like?

Yeah, for sure. Anytime you can book a free consult call with me and we can talk through it.  Yeah,

Sterling:
I think it’s so good. I mean, I, I know I haven’t experienced that, but I know that. I know that if I did, I would just want someone to hold my hand through it. And I think you’re right. I bet we think, Oh, my husband should know or even my, my family or my friends.

And  I’ve experienced a lot of miscarriages and I will just tell you, they don’t know. They certainly don’t.It’s not intuitive how to hold someone’s heart through one of those events. And so I think it would probably be really beneficial to have a coach, particularly a Catholic coach that can walk you through that and help you manage your thinking around it. 

Nichole:
Yeah. And even sometimes like two people going through the same experience have different things too. So like from I have two siblings, I have an older sister and a younger brother, and we were always at different places. So like  there were times where like, even though we were going through the same grief, it was different for each of us.

And so I would. Reach out to my brother and I would, and he would just give like the cliche things, cause he would want to make me feel better. Cause he felt okay that day. And so I think too, that’s something that  also was unexpected. Was that the loneliness that comes with grief?  Yeah. 

Sterling:
Wow. That’s so amazing, anything else you wanted to share with them? Any, anything? I mean, I hate to use the word tips. It sounds so silly, but like, but yeah. You know, somebody that’s going through grief, is there anything else you want them to know, like a message that you feel like their heart needs to hear? 

Nichole:
I just think the biggest one is kind of what we talked about, like allow the feeling instead of trying to push it down.

And also that no is a complete sentence. Like if you don’t want to go to a party or you don’t want to go to something, like it’s okay to just say no. Because I like, we feel so guilty all the time and it’s okay. Um, to just give yourself permission and be like, I’m going to say no more, at least for the next. week, two weeks a year. 

Sterling:
And I bet that, especially hard, like two or three years out from the event. Like obviously for Nichole, if she experienced that right before Christmas, everyone would understand if she didn’t come to things that year, but it’s like the next year where it’s probably harder to just be like, no, I’m just, I don’t feel like doing that.

That’s, I just, I’m not going to do that. And to, I bet people feel the need to like explain themselves or to do it anyway, even if they don’t feel like it. And I just love that. No, it’s a complete sentence. You do not need to tell people. What you were going through and why you’re experiencing that. All right, Ms.

Nichole, thank you for coming. I just, I really wanted to help people who have experienced this, and I think you’re just the perfect person to talk about it, not only because of your job, but you’ve been through several different kinds of grief and, and I know you had a, I know that you know how to coach their brains through processing that, but also in a religious way.

I think that’s just an amazing like mix of things. So thank you for making the time. And you guys can go to nursegriefcoaching.com to check that out. Oh, this is going to come out right before advent so if you guys have not checked out my New advent book on Amazon. You can go check that out.

It’s called light in the darkness and you can get a physical copy or Kindle copy. And both of those, when you open them, come with a free audio version. So if you buy either of those, it’ll send you to a website that gives you the free audio version. If you want to listen to the audio files each day. All right, nursegriefcoaching.com

And just all of us let’s be gentle with each other. We are allowed to have different experiences. It’s okay that you don’t understand someone else’s experience. It is okay to just say, I love you, and I’m praying for you. And, you know, you’re gonna get through this, and it’s okay that you’re having a hard day right now.

Let us be mom friends like that to each other. Alright, my friends, thank you so much for listening, and have a blessed day.